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( 22 ) FEEDBACK
∞ . . . GAMEPLAY SUGGESTIONS How To Leave Feedback: Interested in making ED better for one and all? All for one? Here's where you can help your Awkward Tree-house! The Locations & Bestiary suggestion post is for what it says on the tin, and the FAQ deals with any general fly-by questions, with any long-term suggestions popped here for consideration by at least four-to-six of the main gameplay-orientated mods. You're all our fairybros and we love to help! Post as many suggestions as you like, but please do number them clearly so we can respond in kind and keep from muddling up replies once everything has been processed. Have at thee, EDwardians! |
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GAMEPLAY SUGGESTION(S):
Just a suggestion to make things a little more easily navigated. I have to go through a lot of steps when I do a few certain things like post a log or do event things, which could be fixed for the playerbase relatively easily:
The Log Templates should be stickied on the log comm. It's kind of a pain to set it up, but it's worth it. Otherwise putting it on the sidebar or profile would be just as good.
Because we only get the calendar of events for plotting at the start of each month, it makes it kind of hard in the middle of the month to navigate back to find it. But because you guys already have a tag for it, simply linking to Calendar of Events on the comm profiles would make it so people always know what's current and going on. A general link to Mod Posts wouldn't be a bad idea either.
That's all I have for now. Thanks!
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GAMEPLAY SUGGESTION(S): One thing I think is missing from the game premise is that in spite of this being a game with fairies and witches running amok, there doesn't feel to be a lot of freedom on allowing for certain sillier outcomes. Like, common folklore will have things where disturbing a group of fairies can have you be cursed in some way small or great. Or like what happened with Arya and Renly's pets, witches transforming innocent people for no real reason.
Essentially I'm just saying it would be cool to open this up to player characters. If it's already open, it should be a little more obvious that it's something to be played with. Personally I love that we don't do ridiculous personality/body altering events in the game, but some of those effects would be fun to be opened up as results of NPC magic and shenanigans on the side for personal player plots. In fact, it would make them even better than in other games, because characters would be empowered to try and find a way to undo it!
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GAMEPLAY SUGGESTION(S):
Currently the restrictions on the characters who lose their shards are very strict and, in a way, can make it difficult to play in the game at all if a person decides to go through with it.
I realise the consequences of killing off a character should be severe, that it should not be an easy thing to do at all, but as things are they seem might be putting people off and likely not many might be willing to go through with it (which is a shame, considering this is a war game and... well, deaths should happen! Since May when the game opened we've had only one PC death) since they cut off 2 out of 3 avenues of upholding or gaining new CR.
First: the character will not be able to attend the feast when new arrivals show up, second: the character is entirely cut off from the "network" except for people they already know (because how could they figure out who else they could contact if they don't know they're even there). The third is, of course, meeting face to face, except with the size of the map and the travel times for the shardless (since fairy rings don't work for them) that further makes any CR and any activity difficult unless the character stays at the Station all the time or travels in a large group.
Additionally, lack of the "network" access cuts off one avenue of submitting activity check, since characters can't post to it. And character inbox threads don't count towards AC... and making only filtered posts to the network comm (if it'd be allowed at all?) kind of are at odds with the idea of panfandom games.
My only suggestion is to perhaps rethink this approach? Maybe posts that are "open," as in not filtered to either court, could still be visible for them? Maybe the posts made by the shardless would always show up as open as well, unless they "select" every single person from the court they want to filter to? I don't mean to get rid of the mechanic entirely, since I wholly understand why it's implemented ICly, but perhaps just to loosen it a bit?
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Secondly, we are in the process of also reviewing an announcement for release within the next month which will:
1) Revoke boons for characters who fraternize between courts
2) Revoke locket access for characters who fraternize between courts
3) Make lockets court-specific communication devices only!
This is a war game, and we did not expect droves of individuals to be signing up to kill their characters: it's more meaningful if each death becomes a blow.
Instead, we'd rather design these mechanics to encourage groups of characters to collaborate together to overcome common problems! For example, we would fully expect characters to reach out to others given any change in locket status, and develop new, non-court-specific methods of communication!
The war aspect of the game is something which will only heat up, presenting new and complex challenges to characters and their players!
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GAMEPLAY SUGGESTION(S):
Is it possible to change how/when you post the feast log? I'm assuming what you're doing is screening it and getting it ready in advance, which I understand, but once it's unscreened, it doesn't show up on reading lists as a new post. Since this one was dated for the 26th, it got buried pretty quickly. Maybe when the time comes, copy/paste the original screened post and make a new one?
Thanks, and stay wonderful!
edit: ALSO could you add the Feedback link to the main navigation page? Also also the Events link goes to a locked post on the main navigation page and travel & transportation page. I should write these things down before hitting post whoops, thank you!
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All the links on the Nav page are now fixed, we clearly missed updating that a few months back when we overhauled the links on the comm pages. The old events post was actually our super-secret modly page where we keep all the delicious events for the future stored/organized ;) so that's edited out of sight and the Feedback link has been popped in place for easy access.
Thanks for your sharp eyes!
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GAMEPLAY SUGGESTION(S): Re: this discussion on rpanons. Possibly having a scheduled 'state of the chars/game' post every month/second month which allows players to put in a singular location what their characters have been up to that month/two months. It can feel sometimes like so much is going on in the game that it's almost impossible to keep up with it, even tangentially, so I think having a place to at least put out the basics of what's been happening might help out with characters feeling less swamped by everything and more in tune with how they can possibly interact.
I'd suggest two categories of "What the general populace/everyone can know about what (C) has been up to" and "What close cr/only (C) knows" so that there's a strict border of what IC knowledge characters can have about the goings on.
I know we have the cr/friending meme, but not everyone chooses to tag into those and we really only give short blurps on what we're doing. Having a place to note things that have altered certain settings or that will affect people that come into contact with so and so when they haven't necessarily had pre-existing cr to base changes on or know about, say, a horn on someone's face or scars or whatever might crop up can also lessen retcons and oopsies.
Maybe have it be in tandem with the state of the game post, so it's one big update that both the mods can put in NPC and game info into (like the post linked in there) as well as char updates.
And I'll shut up now.
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An anon player recently gifted the modteam a paid account (and a huge, grateful shout out to them!) so we may implement its polling feature about a few options for a mechanic like the one you've made mention of.
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CHARACTER(S) PLAYED: Lancelot, Red
GAMEPLAY SUGGESTION(S):
Strike list/AC fails lists!
By this I mean: At the moment AC sort of happens mysteriously. People get kicked, and we don't find out! Likewise, sometimes when you are swamped we don't get a reply confirming if we passed or not. Thus: a lot of games I am in post a list of people who are going to be swept before they do it. The benefit of this is twofold: first, their CR / castmates find out if someone is being officially swept. Second, if someone is away on hiatus and is being accidentally kicked we can correct before they get kicked and confusion breaks out! Edit to note that it doesn't have to be fancy! Just a List! I guess in our case first warning would be replaced by 'Doubling up'. But you don't even have to include that if it makes it too much extra work.
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CHARACTER(S) PLAYED: Grainne
GAMEPLAY SUGGESTION(S): A monthly sticky post in the OOC com with links to things like boons, announcements and basic game mechanics like AC- also possibly a link while quest requests are open because I think a few people missed the window this last time.
It wouldn't take much, just an extra new post at the start of the month (or just a static one that gets edited!), and a couple links as official posts go up, but it would really help, I think! The OOC com is so very active at times. I think it would be especially helpful to new players during app cycles since things can really get moving then. There's community tags, of course, but having it all in one place specifically for that month would be convenient, and sometimes for unexpected things like announcements people don't think to check the tags. It would help people see instantly upon visiting the com if AC is up, and just got swept down a few posts, for instance.
I made a link post in my journal so I could check those things quickly, and it's been really working well for me so I thought I'd suggest something similar for the com.
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CHARACTER(S) PLAYED: Saber Alter, Kara Beckworth
GAMEPLAY SUGGESTION(S): With the implementation of the quest system and PCs of sufficient rank being able to give their own quests, I think it would be very useful to the players if links to the Quest Boards set up by the 4/5 star characters are added to the general quest request page.
When looking for the boards put up by Ganondorf and Lancelot to make sure I was keeping mine in line with the necessary information, it took me a bit to find the mod post in the ooc comm with an update on the quest system to even find it. I also noticed the PC given quests are mostly open and I wonder if the difficulty in finding the boards when a player looks into signing up for a quest contributes to it.
BTW, here is Saber's quest board.
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CHARACTER(S) PLAYED: Dorian Gray
GAMEPLAY SUGGESTION(S): A tiny possibility for making navigation easier! With the filtering of locket posts increasing, and about to be outright locked in the future, I wonder if it might be useful to have, like, (seelie) and (unseelie) tags for network posts, so that things can easily be filtered by which court has access to them? Similarly, having a tag for (open) logs might be useful for sorting out open logs from quest logs and such. Not sure if other players might find it useful, but it feels like it might help sort things out a bit.
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CHARACTER(S) PLAYED: Wan
GAMEPLAY SUGGESTION(S): Creating an 'Overall Drabwurld Influence' Roster
With there being a sizable chunk of characters attempting to go 'neutral' in the war, as well as characters who, when they take quests, might spread themselves out more across the world instead of 'focusing' in one place, their influence and contributions should have a way of being measured as much as the two court specific influences are.
The Overall Influence roster would be more difficult to gain ranks on and everyone would start at 0 stars. My current idea for it is that it would take doing at minimum 5 Stars in quests to obtain each rank. For a total of 25 stars to reach Rank 5. This reflects the 'word of mouth' spread of an individual's deeds across the world. Not all quests will be able to contribute to this - if a character spends too much time in one area, their reputation will not spread as fast as a character that does a lot of quests scattered across the map. Mod discretion would be advised for policing rather than give hard limits. Characters could also possibly take quests specifically to spread their reputation in lieu of earning court specific influence. Players could also 'argue' for their Character gaining a single star for actions taken outside of quests (only one per 3 month period) that are both public and significant enough to draw attention to them. Gaining and Losing Court Influence doesn't effect the Overall Influence outside of determining what kind of reputation the character might have.
Characters can lose Overall Influence should they cease doing quests that spread their names - for every two months that they go without such quests, 1 star is subtracted from their star total. This can drop them a rank, but never below 1 star. Once a character is on the Roster, they remain on it - though they are very likely to be considered a minor footnote in some history book should they never have their name spread further.
The 'rewards' for gaining ranks on the influence would be less of the material kind seen in the Court Influence rosters and be more reputation based. If they are likely to be recognized by name or not, if they are more likely to be sought out for their knowledge or their abilities, if they are feared or beloved, etc.
1 Star = Character's Court Title (if any) and one or two major deeds have been heard of in passing in all major cities of the Drabwurld, though their actual name may not be recognized as tied to that title. (Example: people recognize the title "The Lord of Mair", but might not know his name is "Ganondorf"). Anyone with 5 stars on their Court Influence roster would automatically gain 1 Star on the Overall Influnce roster, if it's implemented. Characters that achieve this rank will likely have their names remembered in a history book somewhere.
2 Stars = Character's name is now recognized in all major cities as easily as their Court Title (if any) and they have gained a 'known' reputation for how they usually treat others; Character's Court Title (if any) is recognized in most of the smaller villages of the Drabwurld but their name might not be recognized as associated with the title; Character's reputation may have earned them a 'nickname' or 'title' that reflects or mocks their reputation (Example: The Lord of Mair is also known as 'The Just' for his firm, but fair actions toward those that serve him.)
3 Stars = Character's name is now recognized in most of the smaller villages of the Drabwurld as easily as their Court Title; their reputation preceeds them and people are as likely to judge them based on that as they are their status as a Shardbearer (or not as the case may be) OR their Court Affiliation. This could cause some Seelie natives to treat Unseelie with kindness (and vice versa) or neutral populations to be more in favor or opposed to a specific individual due to said reputation. Character is one of the first people thought of when someone of decent social standing is in need of something regarding their area of expertise. Invitations to social gatherings of the well-to-do and politically influential may come in once or twice a year. Characters that Achieve this rank will likely be remembered in a folk legend of some sort, even if their reputation drops.
4 Stars = Character has a nickname rather than a title (Example: Ganondorf is known as 'The Pig' rather than 'The Just') and they have become a minor celebrity of the Drabwurld - for good or ill. If someone hasn't at least heard of the Character's Court Title (if any), they're either newly arrived or have been living without contact with the rest of world and should definitely get out more. Character's public travel and who they are seen with is gossiped about in most major cities. Their reputation influences the common NPC's reactions more the character's Court Alliance (if applicable). Major lords and rulers of the world are likely to take the public's opinion on the Character into consideration when deciding how to treat the Character - well liked/hero-of-the-people sort will earn the rulership enemies of their own people if acted against in haste but could earn goodwill from the peasants if treated kindly; the reverse being true for those with more sinister reputations. Invitations to social gatherings of the well-to-do and politically influential come in monthly, either out of genuine interest, or to give their other party goers a shock.
5 stars = Character is considered a major celebrity among the Drabwurld. Character's 'nickname' more accurately reflects their reputation and is less likely to be one of mockery regardless of deeds; it is more commonly used than character's Court Title (if any) when they are spoken about in general conversation. The well-to-do and politically influential generally consider themselves lucky to get an audience with the character when it happens. Despite Court Alliegence and Court Standing, even the Monarchs must take pause when deciding how to respond to dealings with the Character due to how far their reputation precedes them, else they earn the enmity of their own people, however short-lived it may be. Characters who achieve this rank will be as well remembered as Reynard the Fox for centuries to come, regardless if their overall influence drops.
It was just something I was thinking about - Characters without court alliances due to the loss of a shard or being Native OCs, characters who don't care about court titles, characters who do a lot but don't have it easily reflected in the game mechanics, etc, could still have influence in the world at large just as easily as those who maintain a Court Allegiance. NPCs could be rated on it as well just to give an idea of how well known to the public they are. If implemented before/during the Timeskip, characters who are actively trying to spread their influence during the timeskip could post up requests to have their actions during the timeskip considered as equal to 1 to 3 quest stars to count toward the roster's totals for where their reputation is at at the end of the timeskip.
Even if it doesn't get implemented, I hope you'll consider something similar for the future.
I know it's a long post, so thank you in advance for reading it.
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'Welcome to the roster which keeps track of one's influence within their court and around the Drabwurld!' -- Influence Roster
'For those gaining influence in the drabwurld outside of their court, consider this ranking a public awareness meter.' -- Influence FAQ
'You can still get quests and rise in general drabwurld rank [if you don't have a court/shard]! Note that quests will be more difficult for you without the power of a shard or the backing of a court.' -- Influence FAQ
And there are several more! It's made very clear that the Quest/Influence system is for shardless, natives, and those beyond the courts as much as those within them. Additionally, it's worth noting that no matter what 'neutral' activities one engages in, their shard still marks them for Seelie/Unseelie, and natives WILL attribute a character's doings to their court (in true medieval fashion).
As a note, Eachdraidh is run by a very small moderating team, and while we're happy to consider suggested tweaks for our system, for the near future it's going to be all we can do just to stay on top of the current quests/influence system! But that said, we'd absolutely love to open up a more in-depth dialogue with you via plurk or some other venue to discuss what you feel the current system is missing.
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(Anonymous) 2015-04-12 08:12 pm (UTC)(link)So I was wondering among the mod team who does what, exactly, because it seems to me and a lot of people that Snow does a disproportionately large amount of things? It's a bit of a concern because this is a really great game and the last thing anyone wants is for it to come apart because of burnout. If there are other mod(s) doing things, what, exactly, are they doing, just for clarity's sake. Thanks!
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I've been a member of the ED team since it began, and have been doing the great majority of the game's heavy lifting since (roughly) last July/August. I write the game's NPCs, write and post the calendars, the flavour text, write other events as needed, assign boons, developed the quest/influence system and solely maintained them until recently, currently hand out quests, answer PMs, coordinate player information documents, do most of the announcements, and so forth. One other anon mod from the original crew assists with various sundry items, such as making announcements via plurk, AC, apps, writing some announcements on the ooc comms, boons and influence roster updates as needed, weighs in on game decisions and player concerns, has created some npcs, and primarily gives me a lot of valuable input, as I was relatively new to DWRP at ED's inception and am still quite naive to a lot of common practices, concerns, and other issues.
Help has been and is still being sought out for the main mod staff: four people, to date, have been approached, and all have politely declined.
There are a small handful of list mods who handle the game's lists and now the influence roster, and whom I also approach frequently for advice on various matters. There is also a fairly robust staff of application mods.
Dani, the game's head mod, contributes to the app staff, weighs in on interpersonal player issues, weighs in on major game decisions, and in general acts to me as an advisor and guide in the modding process.
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(Anonymous) 2015-04-17 06:06 pm (UTC)(link)I've been involved in a lot of talk about the next app round, since the last round had such a limited window and it will have been a considerable time once the new one rolls around. I, and some other people interested in the game, was wondering if you might consider reserving a certain amount of slots for new players (perhaps 1/2 to 2/3). I have friends who are already anxious about being able to refresh in time to get an app in, and I think knowing there's consideration in place for new players would be reassuring and prevent more interested players from being discouraged about their chances of getting in.
I don't think it should be a general rule, but rather a one-time event since it's been so long between rounds.
Thank you!
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Especially given that with the upgraded AC requirements, most current players are dropping extra characters rather than adding them, we simply don't think it's going to be a concern.
What we HAVE experienced is a great deal of new players apping in, and then dropping again within the first two to fourteen days citing the inability to handle the additional time commitment. Each app round so far has had between two and seven of these. The mod team is in discussion about a potential initiative which would keep track of any app/droppers for the first two weeks after apps close, and then go back to process that many apps, in order of submission, who just missed the cut-off.
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GAMEPLAY SUGGESTION(S): A standalone community for quest givers and their boards for easier management.
This cuts down on the clutter in user journals as well as make it easier for all players to locate quests as they would be located in a single journal (or community in this case) with the ability to sort through tags. The cons of a system of this nature is maintaining yet another community plus the possibility of spam when it comes to pimping the post out. I think having a permanent record of past quests in a single area would be beneficial to players, especially new quest givers who might want to look over past ideas for inspiration and limitations.
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(Anonymous) 2015-04-29 04:05 pm (UTC)(link)1. The mod quests have kinda been where characters have really been able to push the boat out and get new and interesting things. I'm using terrible examples but what if a character wants a dragon? Or superpowers? Or an island? Or to be a famous popstar? Or basically anything that isn't just under the current high up characters' jurisdiction?
2. Power-wise there's already quite a big difference between the high up players and the newer ones. With this new system in place, wouldn't characters only be able to reach just below the current top players? For example, if my character's a big army general, wouldn't they only be able to promote other players to colonels? I doubt I would be able to promote someone to king?
3. It looks like this would put a lot of pressure on the high starred players. To be honest, at times getting quests from some of them currently has been very very difficult. The players can be unreliable, fickle and it feels as if you have to make sure to be on their good side. Nothing against the players, but at the end of the day they're not necessarily there to help others climb rank.
I totally get that the mod quests take a lot of time and effort to do, but they were a source of hope that, if I lucked out and managed to get one, I could get somewhere cool with it. As someone who hoped to climb the ranks at some point, it looks as if that is soon about to become impossible.
If I'm wrong, please do tell me! I'm sure you guys are figuring it all out and have put a lot of thought into this. Please put my mind at ease, fairymods!
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1. Quests have never rewarded things of this nature. Completing quests gains players things like: npc involvement and connections, consideration for positions of political power, significance in various IC organisations. That will all still be possible.
2. I'd actually disagree that there's any concern for the difference in power scale. Plenty of characters older to the game have opted not to reach for physical or political power where appropriate for their character. Many characters who are relatively newer to the game have already dramatically outpaced them.
What we see instead is a realistic representation of power scales. People who have thrown themselves into the game and made things happen (in and out of quests!) now have footholds of power and that is reasonable. Characters who have only been a few months in-game shouldn't be able to emulate that amount of ooc effort in so short a while.
But nor should power be static. What the revision of the system will do will put the onus of maintaining influence on those with it. No longer will they just be statically at four and five stars; but they will be required to either spend their influence accomplishing objectives, or lose it. Losing enough political influence could ICly be represented by demotions, being ousted from political offices, or other upheaval.
Regarding your last point, about promotions: doing well in quests makes a character visible to their court and the world at large. Advancement in the world for characters who make significant leaps in the drabwurld can come from more avenues than just their quest-assigner. But the onus is on players as well; to have characters think critically about accepting quests, and accept them in areas of skill or the physical world where they would most want influence.
3. There is already a great deal of pressure on high starred players. Anyone who takes a quest from them should be grateful; they're taking the time out of their day to think up interesting things for others to do when they could be rping their own characters. To date, no PCs have received any real benefit from assigning quests to other players. The only reason they've offered quest boards has been to help other people find new modes for engagement and to draw players into the game. Questers can be at least as unreliable as quest givers; many assigned quests go uncompleted, creating work for all of us, and if the PC quest assignor experience mirrors that of the mod team at all, some questers are simply unreasonably difficult to work with.
It's also important to remember that this, at the end of the day, is a website on which we play twice-fictional characters in a fairy land. No one should be quick to take anything personally.
In closing:
The mod quests take an enormous amount of time. Absolutely enormous. With a potential 80+ new characters coming into the game in the next app round, we are not going to promise all of those players something which we simply do not have the time to give; not when the system itself already needed adjustment and could stand to be streamlined for all involved, and not when there are a full half-dozen characters newly at the point of being able to assign quests.
We thank you for your concern and willingness to come to us; but, truly, these measures are meant to assist in addressing persisting issues and make the experience more transparent and accessible to all who desire to engage in it.
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With a number of recent drops, we've lost people who have massive political influence and physical control over locations. It's occurred to me, looking back at the establishment of the White Citadel and the Spires, that only the White Citadel has back-up individuals in case a player who has a marquis position drops. Likewise, the Seelie have three individuals that are at the top of the military chain of command - Lancelot, Clarisse, and Faolan. In comparison, the Unseelie do not have this back-up in place for the barons, for Saber, or for Mair. Cothromach's transfer was handled well when Ned Stark dropped and Sansa took it over, but there is no back-up in case of something happening either, nor is there something in place for Redgate.
I understand that the case of the White Citadel having back-ups was to ensure that 10 players on each side were given positions of power, but I would like to ask the mod team to consider having on file back-ups for these locations and others in spots of power in the future. It would make drops and the turmoil resulting from them go much smoother, and have less of a game upset.
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We'll have a conference on the subject and see what we can come up with!
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(Anonymous) 2015-05-11 11:59 pm (UTC)(link)My honest suggestion is something that would make collecting and editing information much more easier, something that we can link, share, and something that the mods can link on the game profile.
So here's my suggestion: a game run wiki we all can edit, mods and players. Hear me out, I've played in the past at
If that isn't something that appeals to you, then perhaps it may be in the best interest to reference the docs in the user info, rather than letting them get lost in the shuffle that is a plurk timeline. Please understand that some of us don't have time to frequently look through plurk, some of us work well over 40 hours a day, have multiple jobs, and/or go to school in addition. I think something that would easily compile this information would actually be fantastic.
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What we try to do is release information organically into the game. A great deal of things simply aren't known, or aren't discussed by game NPCs until they are under specific pressure or other duress. Doing so produces a realistic flow of information ICly and restricts players from using OOC information ICly to influence decisions, which is a significant concern.
The fact that a tier of shard power exists which can be used to battle mentally was not widely known before Ariadne's post. However, it's been accounted for in mod plans for months; it's not a change to existing mechanics, only an aspect of them which characters are just now learning about.
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CHARACTER(S) PLAYED: Sam Wilson
GAMEPLAY SUGGESTION(S): Hello, darling modly ones! I went on a bit of a ramble on plurk yesterday and was told that many shared my sentiments and that they might be worth bringing forward here for your eyes, if you have a free moment!
I think it's pretty fair to say that this most recent plot update / mechanic change with Verla's fall caused a bit of a stir, if not upset then at least some alarm and confusion. While I do think it's a natural progression of the plot and a good IC sign to our characters that this apocalypse business is a serious deal, I also think that its implementation was sudden and overwhelming for most, even those of us that aren't directly affected by the loss of fire magic. Rather, I think it's part of an overarching problem that's been consistently throwing many players off balance over the last few months, myself included.
The short version is simply to say that everything really, truly does happen so much. Before I joined the game, I asked friends of mine that had already been playing in Each for several months if not from the very beginning about the general pace and tone of the game. It was pitched to me as medium paced and more of a fantasy / adventure theme than action or active war, where you could kind of take things at your leisure and explore the world by your own means. While some of that may still hold true, several people agreed with me when I said that the game itself is moving and growing far faster than many of us had anticipated. As a former mod, I fully understand the idea that as the plot moves forward, there will certainly be changes to the pace and tone and various sundries, but I also think it's important to make sure that this development doesn't outgrow your playerbase.
What I mean to say with this terrible rambling is that - recent game developments, both ICly and OOCly, have been implemented too quickly for a good portion of our players to be able to keep up. I told a friend that is considering applying in the upcoming app round that I have the unique perspective of both a new player and a player that has been tossed through the ringer already, which seems like it should be an oxymoron. But since my acceptance in February, I've seen the fall of Caer Scima, the death of the Jabberwhelp, the disappearance of the Monarchs and the network along with the entire overwhelming fiasco that was the entirety of the timeskip, the AC, boon, and quest changes, the severe schism between cross-court CR, and the sudden rise of the Cult as an active threat. When this unexpected twist of the Pyrii dying and taking all fire magic with them, not two days after the huge scramble caused by the attack is Diasbaille, it's kind of just like. There's no breathing space, there's no room to settle into the newest leap in a completely different direction before we're being spun around again by something else.
Things are happening too quickly, on both the IC and the OOC front, for more than just a few of your players. I don't mean to speak for everyone by any means, but when I voiced my concerns on plurk, I was met with an overall agreement from my timeline.
The pace has picked up dramatically in several ways, which has not only changes the tone of the game itself but also the level at which your players have to operate in order to feel like we have any grasp at all of what is happening at any given time. I, personally, feel like I have not been able to find my feet despite having been in game for over three months now. This is absolutely in part due to my own limitations from RL and what have you, but I think there is something to be said for taking the capabilities of your playerbase into mind as you move forward with significant game changes. Curveballs can be fun and exciting, but if they're coming one after the other on both the IC and OOC sides of the equation, it can end up being exhausting and stressful instead.
I don't mean for this to be damning or objecting to game development. Like I said, I really do understand this as the natural progression of things. I suppose my only intent behind this long and arduous task of a critique is the hope that maybe you brilliant minds might find the time to give us a little more of it. The problem isn't that changes are happening. It's that they're happening too quickly for us to be able to follow them.
I have loved and adored everything I've had the privilege of doing in this game, but I took a hiatus for the month because I felt that I needed a little bit of breathing room to be able to wrap my head around the game again. Yet I haven't been able to look away for longer than a few seconds, because in the short two weeks of May so far, I've already gone through multiple CR upheavals and major game changes. I feel like if I do turn my back for a moment, I will return to a completely different game. Again. And that is entirely too stressful a thing to think about something I hold so dear. I hate the idea that I'll have to drop not for lack of motivation or time, but because my efforts aren't enough anymore. It is getting harder and harder to keep up.
If you read nothing but this last paragraph of my feedback ( for which I would not at all blame you, I am so sorry I don't know how to make my points more concisely ), I would ask that maybe you consider a little more communication with the playerbase before implementing large game changes that aren't inherently significant plot reveals. Things like AC changes or game mechanics, such as the violent cross-court divide and the magic restrictions, that might make sense on the mod side of things but are unfolding in sudden and jarring patterns on the player side; these aren't necessarily bad changes, but I would hope that we might be given more time to settle into the idea of them before being forced to adapt to all of them at once. There is a resounding love and respect for you guys as our mod team. I just really hope that we can learn to communicate a little better to operate on the same level as we move forward - hopefully together!
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And should also be aware that the mod team has been pitching the fact that the game atmosphere would change post timeskip; it's noted in many ooc announcements, some as old as jan/feb of this year!
And while we can utterly empathise with feeling that things are happening so much, it's important to take a step back and look at the larger frame: what happened in Diasbaile directly affected 3 to 6 characters. While they're all now set to go on their own adventures to get more information, that will all take time. Weeks, if not months! While it's certainly caused some CR upheavels, it's the culmination of roughly three months of IC activity, in plots which have scattered over more than 25 characters. Pretty long burn, all considered!
The recent OOC announcement is for something which doesn't ICly happen until the 20th; another 5 days. It'll arguably be among the most significant game announcements for the post-timeskip game, regarding IC events. Something worthy of the game attention for the game's next chapter!
There have also been a LOT of mechanic changes over the last 5 months; but with luck, we're now at a good place.
Ultimately, what you're feeling is very reasonable. We don't want to discount that! And if anything, a lot of the mod team members all feel the same way: exhausted with tinkering to get things just right, from writing dozens of background and info pages, beta-testing and triple-checking!
We're hoping things settle down for at least the rest of this (and with luck ALL of next) month.
That said, we are always hungry for concrete suggestions on the when/where/and format of announcements and so forth to help make them easier for the playerbase to digest! You and/or other players are absolutely more than welcome to help forge us into a team which better serves the game!
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CHARACTER(S) PLAYED: Diarmuid Ua Duibhne
GAMEPLAY SUGGESTION(S): One of the big things that has been bothering me lately is that we are given options to do things, but we have no idea the significance of the options until it is too late. Refer back to this tag where the mods mention the whole lost off the ability to raise a third court. Very few people know about this. My character was one and he has been fighting for another way or a third court option since he came into game. He was actually pushing a few things along that might have resulted in a third court, but then suddenly somehow two of the sigils have made their way to the monarchs and the option is lost? I knew one had made it there, but not the other. This is a very slim margin (12 sigils are still out and about after all), but that one other sigil going over suddenly destroys all chance of a third court and takes one large way of changing the outcome of the game away? This was doing of one player or a small group of players and yet it affects the whole game in a very large way. While I would never try to control the way players play the game, when the actions of so few greatly affect the game at large it comes off as them controlling the choices of other players and how they play the game. I know it is not their intent to do that, but in the end that is what happens. In a game that is suppose to be full of player choices, when things like this happen and choices are snapped away before the player base a a whole knows about them, it is not encouraging. In fact, it is very discouraging.
(Edit: It was pointed out to me after I posted this that using that specific event makes it seem like I am picking on those characters involved or the muns. Please note this IS NOT my intent. It might not be the best example, but since the mods brought it up in that other tag, I just went with it. In the end, the example isn't as important as the fact that IC information isn't getting passed around to the whole game and that needs to change if possible. If there are options out there that is great, but characters need to know about them in order to be able to use them.)
I know it was mentioned a lot of this stuff is happening to build a sense of urgency, but for me (and many others I talked to) seeing the Void so close did that well enough. Now all taking away these options is doing is making us feel discouraged. People are losing months/year worth of work. They are losing a HUGE chuck of their CR. Yes, there are options for getting boons, for contacting people, but for some people because of their characters personalities or beliefs most of those options do not and will not ever actually be options without our characters being forced to act OOC. This leaves us feeling very trapped, and as I mentioned before, discouraged, because the only choices we have are to make our character act OOC or fall behind gathering things that will help us fight on whatever side we choose.
One example of the difficulties certain characters and player have is this. New characters will now be coming into the game with no network and an environment where it will be almost impossible for them to safely do anything cross court or neutral. This is an issue for certain characters who have been in game for a while and have networks because they are not good at being sneaky or plan out don't care. The idea that characters like this can still do what they want and not be caught (because being caught requires consent) feels wrong and almost like godmodding on an OOC level. It adds a disconnect or an unbelievability that doesn't have to be there.
In less than a month, this game has gone from find your place, build your power, and tackle the war/Void problems however is best for you to you have to do it this way and by these rules or else you are out of luck. That isn't fun at all. It is stress inducing and the very opposite of RP should be. I would ask the mods to please realize that while this is a game about war, there are also characters in it who are peace loving, who would die before betraying one of their friends etc and realize that they need options for doing things just as much as those who are willing to fight hard and turn in any who disagree with them.
As has been mentioned in many other feedback posts, communication between the mods and the players seems to be breaking down. We are still a team, but a team can only work together if they have a clear idea of what the goals are. As it is? Me and a lot of other players (prospective players included!) no longer know what to goal of this game is. How are we suppose to play? What is your guys' intent? As I pointed out to Snow, when I joined in October, the impression was Neutral was a very viable option/path and people should do all they could to keep their shards. Now, it getting more difficult to be neutral makes sense, but at this point is seems like from what the mods are saying and doing that it is an option they don't really want us to take. Plus now, it almost seems like from some comments that we are being encouraged to lose our shards because there is no way to continue on without doing so.
If that is what needs to happen for the game to continue the way you guys imagine it, fine, but please, you need to let us know. As others have mentioned, we can't read your minds and there are some things we need to know to keep the game moving smoothly and so that we don't get upset or discouraged when months of work are suddenly gone.
Also, I am not sure if it is because you guys are so busy or because you are kind of surprised by our reaction to this, but several of the people who I have talked to on my timeline feel like your responses to some of our concerns have been dismissive or borderline "this is how it is so deal with it" in tone or wording. I am sure this is not your guys' intent at all, but it is something you might want to look into dealing with. Take a little longer to answer if you need to. We are patient and we want to work with you. If it takes a little time, no worries! We're all a team here after all!
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Firstly, I'd like to apologize for any correspondence you or any other player has had with the team which has come off as dismissive or tonally uncomfortable. There are no excuses to make as we are the public face of the game and owe it to our players to be as courteous and polite as possible at all times, regardless of any non-game grievances which might be making us a little cranky. Secondly, we'd like to apologize for the delay in replying.
Over the last few months the game has undergone a mammoth amount of IC development in a very short time. It's easy, in hindsight, to see now where we've gone wrong and which things might have benefited from us waiting a little longer. As it stands, the playerbase as a whole have been very vocal and very honest with us about what they've liked and what they haven't. A primary concern we will be working on going forward into the rest of the year is clearer and more frequent OOC communication between the mod team and the playerbase.
In the beginning of the game, neutrality was a much more viable option as things, ICly, had not escalated to the point which we're at now. We've carefully reviewed the feedback received regarding the time skip and the subsequent events that have followed and will be incorporating player views on these matters into our discussions of future plot mechanics and the speed at which we implement them. It made sense, to us as mods, that for things to progress in game to encourage a less neutral tone we'd need to shake things up. This came with a failure to properly communicated with you, the player base, and for that we can only apologize and improve on as mentioned above.
However! The plausibility (at an IC level) regarding a third court option is obviously bleak at best with what has transpired over the last few months. However, the possibility of a third option is still available pending on certain plot outcomes regarding sigils and shards. Obviously with today's announcement the mod team will be recovering from a huge creative loss to our team, but we will be moving forward to discuss at length the option of a third 'court' in the future. If and when we have agreed on something which makes sense, we will be striving to include players in its inception and execution so that no one is left in the dark.
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CHARACTER(S) PLAYED: Wan
GAMEPLAY SUGGESTION(S):
I'm going to preface this with the fact that I really enjoyed the Verla plot, had a great time with it, am very happy with my personal involvement. And I actually don't mind RNG at all. I was very happy with the odds and method we worked out for determining if Mount Verla was successfully moved. For a personal/small group plot, I think what we agreed to was more than fair to all involved.
However, with how much was actually at stake, I do think that involving RNG could have been done differently in this case. And potentially in future cases where the results effect more than just a few characters. And been done in a way that included a means of allowing the playerbase as a whole to have a say, while still limiting most of the influence to those actively participating. I think there can be a balance between 'blindsiding everyone because RNG screwed us' and 'infomod to munchkin the odds!' when it comes to those variables.
Using the Mount Verla plot as an example:
And having had some time to think about this and figure out exactly what's been giving me some dis-ease over this, I think that's really what's at the heart of the "blindsiding/discouraging on an OOC level" feelings that have been expressed lately. It feels like taking initiative to do something potentially cool and interesting is being actively punished because the same result would occur if nothing was done. That it doesn't matter that the playerbase is getting involved (or trying to) and working hard and putting their efforts towards doing things. We still aren't getting told what our efforts may or may not effect.
I'm not saying you should tell us the exact consequences of action or inaction, but giving us a heads up (in my example, the IC post about fire spirits and gods acting weird) that it may involve large, sweeping, and sudden changes to the game as a whole should we actively take initiative would be something I'd hope you will consider in the future. Give us a reason to go investigate this or that: if we don't, we won't find out anything; if we do, we get small hints about their connection to the greater whole regardless of failure, with success giving us a lot more.
Reward initiative OOCly even if it ICly fails. Reward taking chances OOCly even if it ICly fails. Reward active participation OOCly even if it ICly fails.
Because right now it just feels like we're going to get 'punished' whether we attempt to do things or not. So what's the point of doing them at all? And I know that's not the intention, it's just how it's unfortunately come across.
But small rewards like that, just hints and clues that we're going in the right direction (or not) for participation regardless of IC outcome would go a long way towards alleviating the discouraging aspect of plots or efforts that are still determined by RNG.
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But I just want to chime in with extreme support for this comment! It is a perfect example of what I meant in my last comment when I said that letting us in on the machinations behind your plotting will help ease the process of moving forward.
I know I keep using my old game as an example, and I do apologize for that, I don't want it to seem like I'm saying you should adopt my modding practices, but I think it serves as an example of what has worked in the past. When we were leading up to our own endgame cataclysm of doom and gloom mass destruction with severe consequences, we dropped several IC hints and clues along the way with things like visions or certain powers doing weird stuff or natural disasters in places they've never happened before, things like that. OOCly, the players could only guess as to what it all added up to, but it at least gave them the chance to speculate and prepare themselves for possible outcomes; ICly, it gave the characters a chance to take notice and make efforts to fight back against their impending fate. We did all of this without ever outright revealing that it meant the apocalypse was going to happen within the year or any of our other big plot reveals. It was just small teases to let characters start preparing themselves for it.
KCH's example here is a perfect example of how this could've been done with the Mt Verla plot. Without giving away the exact result of the plot, it would OOCly clue the players in to something being wrong and ICly give the characters a chance to try and do something about it. This is the best way to implement a plot like this so that it doesn't blindside everyone when something drastic happens. It's not meta-gaming or god-modding information if it's all based on speculation and the hope that maybe what we're doing will help the plot. Instead of feeling like a suckerpunch we never had a chance to dodge, it would be more of a "Ohhh, so that's why fire magic was going wonky." Which is a lot more satisfying of a curveball than suddenly slamming straight into a brick wall.
I think this is awesome. If we could have just a few more hints dropped along the way, nothing concrete or 100% revealing, it would give us a lot more of that hope for the future rather than bleakly accepting we can't do anything to change the outcome of a game's plot. This would give us a fighting chance, and I think we could really use that right now!
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(Anonymous) 2015-05-27 03:00 am (UTC)(link)there's been a slew of complaints on
my main grief here is with this is that we are to obtain level 2 shard usage by interacting with a NPC, unless i'm assuming otherwise. but your NPC staff/mod or what have you is off doing threads that sometimes do not constitute to the in game plot, therefore, make it absolutely difficult to get a hold of any one of you to get to shard level 2, let alone information on how to handle the cultists. do you know how unfair that is to the regular players, with a rank under two or three stars? it honestly makes you look like you're playing favorites half the time. and then you left one character hanging during the timeskip after she unlocked level 2 shard magic, which left her gravely injured and didn't tell the mun this. this character was gravely injured and there had to be at least three or four characters nearby who would have caught onto this. you forced that character to retcon most of her timeskip planning and then caused a chain reaction to her CR, making it look like her CR was horribly OOC because they didn't react to their friend being injured accordingly.
then, again, the NPC response left numerous players in a standstill in leathann, when the NPCs were off threading with repeat characters, yet again. the lack of NPC response has forced some of us to take serious retcons that affects our characterization and has, in turn, ruined some of our plans to develop our characters in game, and go along with the theme of using whatever means we can to stop the void. what are we going to do if we ask for level 2 shard magic, via boon? why are the NPCs treated like PCs, when the NPCs can't seem to juggle the log load? you have at least three open NPC logs, at the top of my head, one involving the white heart that is obviously related to the "godswar", in which the response has been slow and a newer one with saragelui.
it has likely been said before, but it'll be said again: pick up what you are able to handle. but if it's at the point where you're treating major NPCs like PCs and continuously leaving more players lingering on a response, then maybe you should consider apping those NPCs, because the lack of consistency in regards to threading with NPCs for major plots and shard training is beyond ridiculous. it seriously makes you look like you're trying to make a pass at playing a character without having AC and that is seriously, seriously wrong, especially when the moderator team cracked down on AC.
the lack of documentation is also a major weak point in this game. plurk is a format that should be used for broadcasting any major mod updates and announcements, in the eachdraidh plurk not in one's personal plurk. major changes, for example, the out come of mount verla, or boon changes. at the very least, if you're not able to post that at the time in which it goes up, then at least wait for someone who is available to post them into the eachdraidh plurk. players who have had public plurks have taken up that handle of doing that and it's not fair. major developments should be available for everyone to see, not on one selective spot in which some of us may have said mod friended. numerous players in the past have offered a helping hand to keep these lists and documents updated, but i haven't seen any proactive response on the moderator side taking up these offers.
and on that note, in the past, i've seen a mod pop in a plurk talking to a player about businesses, boons, or developments and making off-handed comments that come off as absolutely passive aggressive. sometimes, i genuinely have no idea what the heck to make of your comments or the emotes you use, but i don't appreciate it, at all. if there's an issue with what i am doing via boons or plots, then tell me so, privately, not in an open plurk and then go ahead and debate that with the player. it's unprofessional and it's gotten to the point where i defriended a mod over a plurk and i'm left second-guessing what the heck i'm doing is good or bad, if i'm taking too many liberties or what. but honestly, it comes off you're trying to force me into a direction and coming off as trying to micro-manage everything and i don't like it, at all. maybe i don't want my character to be pushed into a war mind set yet. maybe i feel like that's really, really OOC and ruins my characterization and development in game.
sometimes it looks like there is a huge, HUGE disparity between the moderators talking to one another. for example, yet again, we have a mod plurking about the creation of the fire god and commenting how it was going to be killed off in the godswar. did the moderator reach out to the other moderator to okay it? if not, why is it okay to passive aggressively plurk behind the mun and other mod's back about it? did either any one of you discuss what went down or had a discussion for it? the fact this plurk went up bothers me to begin with makes it look like that neither one of you speak to each other. the same thing happens with boons, too, in some cases a mod will approve a boon or a power, only to tell that player months later that it's not doable, when it's been in-game for months, if not longer, ICly, in the timeskip.
so, largely, i don't know what the deal is, but again, it's getting the point where it's horrid. something has to give in which you expand your team or some of you should seriously start stepping down because of the IC/OOC blurring, the passive aggressive behavior on plurk, the lack of talking to each other as a team, or the inconsistencies with the over all plot and NPC handling. as a player, i cannot emphasize enough tthe way a mod conducts themselves on plurk is an overall reflection as to how approachable you are or not. in the past, the team has been excellent conducting themselves as a group effort, but i don't know what the heck happened after decemeber, but i don't like it one bit.
i am very angry and i'm sorry that my tone is sharp. but i am hoping a moderator looks at this and i'm not very likely to respond. and i do hope OTHER mods look at this comment, otherwise, i will make a point to contact the head mod and discuss my grievances with the handling of talking to players via plurk and the usage of NPCs. if you're expanding your NPCs? okay, cool, that's awesome, but please stop dropping threads and actually thread things that conclude to the over all arching plot of this game. you've got several people waiting on you and some of us were hoping you had this solved after the IC investigation and reports, but after looking at the new NPC logs, i highly doubt that and that's beyond aggravating.
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The fact is, I work a lot. Easily 50 hours a week. I was promoted at work some months ago and my workload quadrupled. Many old hand players might even be able to pinpoint the month because my activity slacked off so sharply. I've been struggling to keep up ever since.
You're not the only one who's felt that. Even my so called 'favorites' often have to wait weeks, sometimes months, for things to happen, to get answers to PMs, to see finished threads (or sometimes not to finish them at all). Almost without exception, the only threads I can finish are those that are boomeranged in times when I usually have my coffee breaks or lunch.
Regarding your example of the character who was injured: it was clarified in discussion that the NPC they were with would have healed them immediately. In no way was any retconning necessary. It had also been made clear in the character's prior attempts to do similar work that injury was likely, and it was the second time, ICly, when they were injured for their efforts.
Regarding shard power levels: IC mechanisms were made to cap the power level at 1 until the game story reached a certain point so that there would not be a huge disparity of power levels. A safeguard against what had been (and is still) happening via boons. But regarding your primary complaint:
I've been seeking out additional help with running the game and its story since shortly after Christmas. Help was gained within the last few weeks, and it's been a bumpy ride. There were some miscommunications. And I wasn't always the best teacher, the best co-mod, or the best communicator. Regarding the incident you mentioned, about me throwing my new co-mod under the bus; I'm not proud of myself. I acted rashly, regretted it later, and apologised to the individual when I could speak to them again.
And I apologise to you, for your experience; and for other players who feel the same way. By the time you left this feedback, several things had already been put in motion to safeguard others from a similar experience: the growth of the team, primarily, the changes to the quest system, etcetera. I'll be on-call for the team to assist in the transition so that all current players don't feel any interruption.
Thank you for your time and your honesty regarding these criticisms.